A few days ago, I reported on the arrest of seven Spanish and Portuguese tourists in Riga for damaging a Latvian flag while drunk. Since then, the post has received comments from a couple of friends of the arrested men. I decided to add a new post rather than just comment on the original one, to ensure that new readers are up to date and also because my message will be quite lengthy. I would suggest reading the original post and the comments before continuing.
Both of the friends have brought something to the discussion. Dr Joachim Neumann in particular has filled in details of what has happened since the young men were arrested. He claims that they have not been allowed direct contact with their families but have communicated only through lawyers, and that they will be permitted only one visit per month. They have now been in prison for a week and there is no sign of when (or if) bail will be granted. The families of some of the young men will be flying out there shortly. Please bear in mind that this is information which I received from Dr Neumann and not from official sources.
Dr Neumann feels that the treatment of the young men is harsh, and if the situation is as he has written then I would have to agree with him. I am, however, no expert in Latvian law – as a travel writer it is not generally part of my area of expertise. It is understandable that the Latvian authorities take destruction of a flag seriously, as it is not so long ago that even raising a flag would have been an act of political defiance against the Soviet regime. For residents of many other EU countries, however, treatment of the national flag is not such an emotional issue. If damaging the flag were not itself a crime, then we would be looking at something along the lines of ‘drunk and disorderly’ – which would be unlikely to lead to such a strong reaction from the authorities.
It is of course difficult for tourists to gauge cultural attitudes such as this, and to know about the legal implications of their actions, when they are only in a country for a few days. Without knowing more about what happened it is hard to comment in detail, but this does have the air of a drunken night out which went a little too far. As I mentioned in my last post, locals in Riga (including the police) are less tolerant of drunken foreigners than they once would have been – the influx of stag parties in particular has led to some ugly scenes in the streets of the old town. It seems that the police are determined to take misbehaviour seriously, and these young men have borne the brunt of this.
Dr Neumann asks a few specific questions which I would like to answer:
- He makes reference to an article stating that the flag was removed from a church in Riga’s old town. I saw that article after posting my own piece, which drew on the Baltic Times (a source which I consider reliable). Standby News took the detail about the church from a Latvian language publication. I cannot read Latvian – I use Russian when in the country – and therefore cannot comment on this with any confidence. In general, though, I would regard Standby News to be reliable in its translations of Baltic news sources.
- He asks about ways for the parents of the young men to express their regret at the treatment of the flag. I would not wish to advise them on this, simply because I do not know enough about the situation. I think that the relevant embassies, and their lawyers, would be a better position to provide advice. One symbolic action might be to join locals in placing flowers at the base of the Freedom Monument, for example, but I do not know whether or not that would actually be of any help or how it would be considered by the authorities.
- He asks whether I would be willing to meet with the parents of the young men. As I am based in the UK, not Riga, this is not practical. However, I would be interested in communicating with them via email – and I will contact him regarding this.
I hope that readers do not mind me responding to an individual reader in public like this. The original article on this subject has been by far the most read on my fledgling blog, suggesting that there is significant interest in the case. I therefore want to keep my readers up to date on developments and will post more news as I receive it. I will be emailing Dr Neumann directly, and would ask any readers with updates to get in touch. In particular, I would be interested to know whether the Spanish and Portuguese press have been reporting on the incident, and if so what they have been saying. In the meantime, I will see whether I can find out anything more from sources within Latvia.
27 responses so far ↓
1 Dr. Joachim Neumann // May 25, 2007 at 12:49 am
According to friends of friends of the arrested men, there is a trial scheduled for June 1. This is Friday next week. If this information is true, the 7 men would be held in prison for 17 days without trail for destroying a flag. This is a strange signal, Latvia as a new member of the European Community sends about the fairness of its jurisdiction.
2 bhavin k // May 25, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Yeah, the Portuguese press finally started reporting it today: http://www.destak.pt/artigos.php?art=869
Nothing new though, information comes from the Latvian news agency. The Spanish embassy said that this is more an act of vandalism than it is of “premeditated profanity against the Latvian flag”, something that they are apparently being charged of.
Really hope that the Latvian authorities realise that they have learnt their lesson and its time for them to go home…
3 Dr. Joachim Neumann // May 26, 2007 at 2:36 am
You can read more here:
www.rigacase.com
Thanks - Joachim
4 Dr. Joachim Neumann // May 26, 2007 at 5:23 pm
If you experience technical problems with the site www.rigacase.com, you may try this link.
I am sorry for this inconvenience.
Joachim
5 LUIS // May 26, 2007 at 10:43 pm
LIBERTAD!
ES DE VERGUENZA QUE SE DEN ESTAS SITUACIONES EN LA ACTUALIDAD!!!
Y MAS EN PAISES DE LA UE!!
MIGUEL!! ANIMO TODOS ESTAMOS CONTIGO!!
6 Aloha // May 26, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Haremos todo lo que podamos (y más) por ver pronto a Miguel por aquí.
Seguro que todo esto acabará pronto, pero mientras quería mandar un beso a la rubia y decirle que estamos por welvayork para lo que haga falta; y otro beso a la familia de Miguel y de los demás detenidos…todo saldrá bien.
La única bandera que nos vale ahoora es la de la LIBERTAD.
(m)
7 Joao Carvalho // May 28, 2007 at 11:11 am
I am also friend of these guys and i should say they are not any criminals whatsoever or anything similar too that, despite that is the way they are now being trated in jail. They are just students and graduated youngsters who work in respected companies and have respectfull families which are now suffering a lot on every minute this tragedy goes on. They love to travell, get to know peoples and cultures and had a night drinking and unfortunelly some of them went a little too far by wanting to steel what for them whould just be a souvenir and nothing else. And since i know them, i am abslolutely 100% sure about that!
Ii’t hard for me to believe that they would do such acts as described by the media. Obviously press media writes what will bring them more readers and profits. It’s all about money, not information and this case is a clear evidence of that. And not so obviously people consume it and judge these boys with no hesitation, and unfortunelly some latvian youngsters that like to travell just like them are included (not all, obviously), what i consider to be realy sad and concerning in a country new member of the European Union.
I think that a country with such kind of extreme authoritative atitude towards these cases is not in the same european union that i am and consequences, reflexion and measures should be taken be taken from these excess of punishment.
It must be public that these young students are now in jail together with high criminal individuals that murdered people, with high security kind of treatment, no right to communicate to outside or even have visits from their families that flew to Riga (only one external visit per month), terrible and no suficient amount of food. Most of them are loosing too much weight too fast and are getting seriously weaker every day, fisically and psicologically which is quite severe as they are not prepared for this kind of prision conditions and violence! They will be psicologically marked for life And all these for trying to steal a souvenir is totally unacceptable and very sad that happens in what is called an european country!!! Some of them did absolutely nothing but watching and are locked up to until a date of trial that know one really knows! This reveals for it self how unfair, heavy and extreme this situation is.
Apparently, they are now paying for all missbehavioured acts from several tourists in the past years, mostly coming from UK and scandinavia and many others that have been using Riga as a party room (specially in the last few years since the low cost airlines got to the city) in some cases commiting some excesses which might have been causing locals and authorities to get fed up of tourists. But this is something that latvians will have to solve internally in another way that not showing out this boys’ heads to the crowd making them pay for everything that bad that others caused in the past.
This attitude clarily reveals that latvians are at the moment being extreme towards nationalism and their simbols maybe due to several historical and also recent events but they should realize that they are as well being totally unfair towards these boys suffering and decaying for every minute locked up in Riga’s jail, for which i’d like to appeal to latvian people and authorities to review their position and help ending this suffering as soon as possible as this has already gone too far beyond the limits of good sense.
My mind and soul as many of their friends’ are now with them until definely they will be set FREE!!!
8 Dr. Joachim Neumann // May 28, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Hi there,
I just talked to Nuno (one of the 7) on the phone. He is free and all charges against him have been dropped.
Joachim
P.S.: read more at www.rigacase.com
9 Borna // May 29, 2007 at 12:07 pm
First of all. Full support from Croatia also for the 7 boys.
I don`t approve messing with the national symbols such as flags and the nearly ended situation at the beginning of the nineties does not excuse it. We are talking about a country which is in European Union.
10 FROM LATVIA // May 31, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Firs tof all, as far as I remember, this was the FIRST time in recent history of Latvia when someone behave like these portuguese and spanish tourists did. Even locals haven’t done such things and that’s why it was quite shocking for us, and it is a serious crime here. This was the “happening of the day” - everybody talked about it. And nobody expected this from portuguese and spanish tourists, because they’re not very many here. It wouldn’t be surprise if they were british or even italians.
I’ve travelled through all Portugal - from Braga to Sagres and I can say only good about portuguese people.
I really hope theese guys will be released tomorrow (June 1).
P.S. Joao Carvalho , if you want a flag as a souvenir, you can buy it, not steal.
11 Joao Carvalho // Jun 1, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Yes, you’re right, you can buy it and not steal, but when you are drunk you tend to do stupid stuff.. Anyway do you think that this is the appropriate attitude against it? Lock people in conditions above human rights, without food and total isolationfor days like if they had murdered some one.!?Is that normal in your country for stealing a flag?! I have many latvian friends as well but i feel not travelling to there anymore as i don’t travell to some countries where i don’t approve their policies which leaves me quite sad
And if this flag means the latvian freedom do you approve taking some one’s freedom just because that someone wanted to take it home? Let’s be reasonable.. What if they would be brittsh or italians? would you lock them as well? Or are these iberians the perfect show case since they don’t constitute a threat to riga’s tourism. Don’t you remember about the brittsh tourist who pissed in the statue? Is this really the first time something like thais happens or is this the first time that some minority tourists do that which makes them the perfect show case.. ?!
EUROPE! FREEDOM!
12 Branko Dobrasinovic // Jun 1, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Freedom for our Portugese friends!
Some of my Portugese friends were unfortunately mentioned here, and I couldn’t believe it’s true, cause I know them as people with BIG heart, very very friendly and honestly good persons.
I hope they will persist all the stress and be released as soon as possible.
BIG support from SERBIA!
13 FROM LATVIA // Jun 1, 2007 at 3:19 pm
I agree with you and I can only answer to almost all of your questions with NO.
With the “FIRST time” I meant stealing flags. And not just stealing, but as I heard on TV news and red in different media here in Latvia, also stepping on flags with foot and throwing them from the bridge into the river. As I red in this blog theese guys told than they “only wanted to take flags as souvenirs and nothing else” . I don’t know who tells truth in this situation - latvian media or theese portuguese guys, but at the same time I don’t have any reason not to believe in local media.
I also agree with you that attitude was a bit too harsh and conditions in most of prisons and police offices here are real hardcore because of money problems. It’s not a problem of those guys but, unfortunately, they have to experience it now.
14 Joao Carvalho // Jun 1, 2007 at 4:40 pm
You have also to be sensitive to the fact the in Riga or in any place of the western society media’s wants to sell. How often things are distorced by media in everywhere..? What you realy should believe is on the proven facts: The flags are totaly clean and in one piece with no evidence whatsoever of having been stepped or damanged in any kind when the police colected them. And in the next morning latvian TV filmed the guys and the flags and there again you can prove they were totaly in one piece. Why is that so difficult to accept!? And tell me.. Why would they want to step or damage it if they wanted to take it as a souvenir!? It makes no sense at all.I really can’t understand why is it so hard to believe that they never meant to destroy any flag!? Listen, i am friend of these guys. I know them, and you can believe me: they planed this trip since finland to latvia for a very long time and with lots of excitement and the city they most wanted to be was Riga due to the big number of friends they have there. So, why would they hate the country?! they are not even the typical low cost airline tourists that go to Riga just for the cheap prices. Clearly the wrong guys were chosen for the show.And does it make sense to you that 3 of them were arrested for 16 days and then released as inocent with all charges dropped?! The reports and news are full of contraditing testemonies since the beguining and even a spanish guy was released under bail due to “technical problems” the authorities declared. Obviously all this story has been over reacted since the beguining and now it is turned into a political case. Sadly, we live in the same european union, but with diferent values.
Got to go now, to join their families and friends in a manifestation in Lisbon appealing for their release instead of being with them enjoying the cool people they are 
How shamefull all this missunderstanding is…
15 Spilios Priskos // Jun 2, 2007 at 11:24 am
All the problematic (or in decadence some would say) states (in a meaning not for the citizents in our case) have an exceeding fetish with flags and symbols.
Considering the few years that passed from CCCP era it can easily been explained for Latvia.
Police and other services might be really corrupted, but in matters of prestige they exaggerate.
Don’t believe the lies of the media.
These ppl do love diversity and respect other nations. We are in the same organization that promotes that, as also the respect to other cultures and in our case ‘the flag’.
We all have other European nations flags in house.
The guyz must be accused cause they did not bought, but stole the flag. All other is BS
Impossible…
16 FROM LATVIA // Jun 2, 2007 at 9:11 pm
I agree that some of media possibly made theese “news” look like “breaking news”, but tell me, Joao Carvalho, why should I believe you ? You know why I don’t ? Just because you are “involved” in this case as their friend. You are thinking only in one way. If I were instead of you I would also protect them as much as I can. I wouldn’t listen to other opinions and all the facts that were against them would call bullshit. I understand it. I’m not a lawier but your arguments you wrote before “I’m 100% sure…, I know them since….”an so on and on, doesn’t work today and they wouldn’t work in any trail, no matter what were the crime.
As you said before “when you are drunk you tend to do stupid stuff”, and when you’ve done that “stupid stuff” and have to face the consequences, you tend to protect yourselve as much as you can by saying that “stupid stuff” I did actually was not so stupid.
I know what conditions are in prisons and police offices, how slow are trials and some of policemen has no motivation to do their job well…and many, many, many other problems. Latvian policies are still improving and learning.
You should know that I also want them to be released as soon as possible and I’m sure there will be happy ending.
17 Borna // Jun 3, 2007 at 1:07 am
Yeah, but your own media took pictures/videos that the flags were not stepped upon or damaged in any way.
I think the problem is in corruption. Why else would they all be denied bail etc. because of the “call from the top”. No call from the top should have any decision in any matters concerning the work of courts because that is the only institution that has to work independently from any other (that is the reason why the same institution of law should be able to change even those “from the top”).
I am from Croatia and here the same thing doesn not work as it is supposed to. But to deny it your are not doing any good because if you want to change things so that one day the whole justice system would work you must not close your eyes and hope for the better but “attack” the same justice system.
18 FROM LATVIA // Jun 3, 2007 at 9:34 am
19 Joao Carvalho // Jun 3, 2007 at 5:02 pm
20 FROM LATVIA // Jun 3, 2007 at 7:51 pm
21 Jimmy // Jun 3, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Just another “impartial” comment here, from just another really worried friend of these really great people. Won’t bring much new to the topic, but I have the urge to share my opinion.
First of all, I don’t think that I would like to share such a story with my grandchildren, specially not with a smile. The conditions under which they are being held, and the isolation from even their families must be posing on them a psychological burden I don’t even dare to imagine.
Then the facts. As most of us, I get the news from different sources which never seem to be too direct or clear, either from media sources or from good friends helping in close contact with the families.
This “call from the top” matter.. It’s just pretentious to start making accusations, but I can tell that one day after getting the first positive news about an incoming (fined) release last Tuesday, things suddenly changed and went back to the political crime just too much of a sudden.
About the stupid act with the flags.. I was not there, like all of us writing here. But I have been travelling around with some of them and in particular I owe Miguel the push that made me start travelling and getting to know and love Europe with all its different cultures and people, just like he does.
So let this be just another vote for “these guys are not flag desecrating monsters” but just a group of nice people that ended up in a silly situation under the effects of alcohol. For sure stealing the flags was a stupid idea, no excuse for that, but the way they are being treated quite exceeds, in my humble opinion, the offense of their act. It gives me the creeps imagining myself in the same situation.
Because I have been a tourist, and I have been sometimes drunk abroad (mostly enjoying some beers with local friends). While being drunk I have also done some stupid thinks.. Like so many others!
They drank, they took down some flags, and then got stopped on a bridge by some (seemingly harsh) police officers speaking an unknown language.. I guess it is not too hard to accept that they could have gotten nervous and let some flags fall to the river and similar.
That’s all for now.
Animo chicos!!
22 Guest // Jun 3, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Just to put a different perspective on the flag issue: as far as I know, damaging, dishonoring, … a flag or another symbol of state is a crime in many member countries of the European Union - including, for example, Portugal, Germany, France, … . In all these countries such a crime can be punished with a maxium time in jail ranging from 6 months to a couple of years. So this law is not a Latvian speciality. Of course, it could be that the enforcement is stricter, due to historical sensitivities. But it’s definitely not something I want to try in another country as well.
Especially, because they were students or graduates they should know that being drunk is never an excuse. One just can’t take or destroy stuff because one feels like doing so or because one wants a souvenir. I don’t quite see what makes them different from the mentioned English tourists. I am sure those people are nice guys as well (at least at home) and I am certain that their excuse also is that they were partying too hard.
23 Joao Carvalho // Jun 4, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Replying to Guest:
And now what? Let’s hang them up?!
“I don’t quite see what makes them different from the mentioned English tourists”. I tell you, their detention consitutes no economical and turistical treath as the detention of the brittish that did serious shit for the past years and that might explain while those were released under a bail of 50 lats. Unfortunley the ones in jail have no such passport and are a perfect example towards the missbehvioured tourists that put real money there in Riga… I will say for the 100…nth time: they damaged nothing! they just detached it from the poles to take it home. If the flags are damaged, where are such proofs or evidences? So far that proof is the statement of an old lady who came from the church at 5 a.m. after the church’s priest already had declared the church was closed at that time… Latvian audience believes in everything an old woman tells and the media spreads out!? Where are the damaged flags????? Where are the eveidences so far??? I have never seen such harsh judgement without proofs. This is scary!!! Usually people are declared as inocent until they are proven to be guilty and only then they go to jail. But apparently in Latvia it works the other way arround: People are declared suspects as “almost guilty”, judged by the people and media, and consequently they are immediatly locked until they are proven to be inocent (as happened witht the already 3 inocent released so far) which is totaly unacceptable and is among other violations of the consitution of the human rights practiced so far. After reading your comment i confirm my suspition about a big part of latvian people being so conservative. I understand that mentality takes time to change and i really hope that under European Union it might change faster and this extreme things stop to happen inside EU. Because EU has fortunelly others values that in other countries and continents where human right are violated every day. At the moment i just which the guy who needs daily medical drugs to have access to it if that is still on time to help him. I am terrified of even thinking this could have happened to me and now my map of eastern europe to travell ends up in Poland
24 Guest // Jun 4, 2007 at 1:25 pm
@Joao: IMO you confuse a few things:
1. they haven’t been sentenced yet - and, at least legally, they thus are not being punished yet.
2. the reason why they are a jail is that they are charged with a serious crime. Serious in the sense that it is punishable with a few years in jail. If you are a foreigner this puts you in serious trouble in any country. Since it will be assumed that you might try to leave the country, you are very likely to be put in jail until the trial. Again, this will happen in any country if the crime you are accused of is serious enough. And again serious enough means, in this case, that the possible punishment is severe enough.
3. it probably is totally irrelevant if they damaged the flag or not. For example according to Portuguese law simply not paying due respect to the Portuguese flag can be punished with up to two years in jail.
4. not knowing the law is not an excuse for violating it.
5. stealing stuff, even if it’s just for fun, also is a crime. But if it hadn’t been a flag but something worthless, they probably wouldn’t have gone to jail, because the possible punishement would have been under the threshold for detention while awaiting the trial. Actually, I find your attitude towards “to taking home” unacceptable. This is called stealing in most countries around the world.
6. the fact that they might have treated unfairly (not having access to a lawyer or the embassy) might in the end work to their benefit. At least let’s hope so. But the fact that they are kept in jail by itself is not a violation of human rights. Also not the fact that the hygienic standards are below what they are used to.
7. it’s not a matter of being conservative or not. This sort of law exists in many European countries (e.g. Portugal, France, Italy) and the possible punishments are pretty similar. So if you are at a risk of doing stuff like this it might be better not to travel at all.
Btw. I am not Latvian.
25 Spilios Priskos // Jun 4, 2007 at 2:21 pm
>damaging, dishonoring, … a flag or another
>symbol of state is a crime in many member
>countries of the European Union - including,
>for example, Portugal, Germany, France, … . In
>all these countries such a crime can be
>punished with a maxium time in jail ranging
>from 6 months to a couple of years.
In all EU countries there is such a law, true.
But the Latvian speciality on that is everything else that happened from that moment.
In the 15 EU countries there is no such law enforcement. They even burn flugs and nothing happens in some cases!!! Don’t mention about things that tourists do in archeological sites in Greece!!!!
But they arrest them, delete pics, give a fee and maximum couple of days in jail, and thats all.
Don’t tell me that in Latvia everything is solved that the turist behavor!!! MERCY!!!!!!
No drugs, no killings, no kidnappings, no corruption, no blackmailings, no tax evation, no car accidents…………
As i’ve said previously ;
All the problematic states have an exceeding fetish with flags and symbols.
In our case a 15 y.o. country.
26 Guest // Jun 4, 2007 at 3:38 pm
@Spilios: I never said that tourists are the root of all evil in Latvia. I am also not saying that I believe that they were treated properly all the way. If they were denied to contact their embassy, this would be illegal. And hopefully this can work for them.
If there is a law it can be excuted in every country. If you are unlucky and get to the wrong policemen, have the wrong prosecutor, the wrong judge, you will be prosecuted and there’s not much you can do. But the laws are not the same in every country and one really has to look very careful. In some countries dishonoring a flag is only punishable if it is in front of a large audience and so on. Other countries are more strict. In some countries only the flag of the country itself is under protection, in others flags of other countries are also protected.
As far as the tourists in Greece are concerned: what happens if you commit a crime in a foreign country, depends very much on how much you can get punished for it. If the possible punishment exceeds a certain limit you go into jail until your trial. The reason is that a country will assume that a foreigner will try to leave the country and not wait until his trial.
27 Guest // Jun 4, 2007 at 5:03 pm
There seem’s to be something wrong with my web browser so I try again:
@Spilios: I never said that tourists are to be blamed for all evil.
A law that is not executed is still there, you just need to be unlucky and get to the wrong policeman, prosecutor, judge, … and you are in trouble. So, I wouldn’t take it granted that nothing can happen to you. Furthermore, the laws are not 100% the same. A flag might be protected in a country under certain circumstances, but not under other circumstances (e.g. depending on how many people are watching). In other countries the flag of the country might have special protection, but not other flags. You really should know the law precisely before you do such a thing - or in this case jump into conclusions.
That they are in prison is not a punishment for their crime. Even if it may seem to be one. If you commit a crime that is punishable with a high sentence (and you are a foreigner) you very likely to have to spend the time until the trial in prison in every country. That’s the big difference to guys stealing stuff in Greece. Obviously, in general, such a crime is not punishable with a few years in prison.
This does not mean that there treatment was okay. Being denied access to their embassy seems to be pretty off the norm. Let’s hope this works to their benefit. Every mistake the police makes can be used against them.
By calling those countries “problematic states”. You contradict that you promote tolerance. You are just ignorant. If you were tolerant you would try to understand certain sensibilities and respect them. Again this does not mean that I support the treatment of those guys. Denying them access to legal council is simply wrong. That the hygienic situation in an Eastern European prison is not what one would be used to, is a different story.
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